Chrysoula ([info]chrysoula) wrote,
@ 2002-12-02 20:31:00
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Structures
After reading the discussion today at [info]zogathon's journal, I had some connected but not entirely on topic thoughts of my own.

Basically, they come down to this: I believe, in America, almost everybody is part of one, or usually more, cultures. In each culture, there are three kinds of people. There are celebrities, there are producers, and there are observers. I suppose by 'culture' I mean what most people mean by 'subculture'. And I think this applies to every such culture I can think of, from movie production to hairdressing to fashion to local town politics to net.geeks to gamers. Celebrities are the names everybody knows. Producers are those who are definitely a part of the culture, but unrecognized and unnotable. Observers are those outside the culture who nonetheless enjoy participating in it passively


Hmmm...

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[info]xleste
2002-12-02 09:42 pm UTC (link)
This is fascinating.

What's your definition of culture?

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[info]chrysoula
2002-12-02 10:21 pm UTC (link)
I don't have an answer for that yet. :-) I was pondering it as I wrote the post, wondering about the difference between community and culture. I'm pretty sure I mean 'culture' and not community but I'm not sure what the criteria are yet. Almost anybody somebody can identify personal celebrities in, I think. There are gaming celebrities and fashion celebrities and executive celebrities and so forth. And anything people identify with, or as. And of course cultures can be nested. But there are celebrities, and producers, and observers. The legendary posters on a mailing list, the everyday posters, the lurkers. The legendary stylists, the ordinary hairdressers, the people who get their hair done. The legendary movie producers, the working-joe movie producers, the movie production watchers. The mayor, the city clerk, the citizen.

The element of being part of multiple cultures is crucial. Among readers, Clive Barker is a celebrity. But publishers and agents have their own celebrities, too, some stacked, some exclusive.

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[info]xleste
2002-12-02 11:04 pm UTC (link)
I think this could also apply to the notion of "corporate culture". Something like there being the "executives", the "managers", and the umm..."direct reports"? line staff? Not sure what that would be. There's also some evidence that industries have cultures. For instance, companies within the tech industry share similarities. There seems to be a difference in kind though, between being able to identify a producer, a celebrity, and an observer within the kind of culture you're talking about, and a different idea of culture that somehow involves commonalities that people share. Like what about, say, "Chinese culture"? I think you can identify producers, celebrities, and observers (like umm...maybe Confucius? And celebrities...maybe umm...Mao?), but I'm not sure that defines Chinese culture substantially...but then, it doesn't sound like you're trying to define it. That's interesting.
If you develop further your criteria for producer, celebrity, and observer, it'd be fascinating to play with. Nifty constructs.

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[info]chrysoula
2002-12-02 11:20 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I'm not trying to define Culture overall, but instead identify to my own satisfaction some... social behavior/expectation patterns within a culture. I do think the larger the culture, the more time the culture has to achieve these things, so Chinese celebrities might be the legends and heroes of years gone by-- but it's also something I'm especially interested in when it comes to America, which I think is especially hetereogenus when it comes to extremely different cultures living side by side.

Industry culture is definitely part of what I'm talking about, by the way, as well as corporate culture. Steve Ballmer is a Microsoft internal celebrity. My HR woman is a producer. I'm a passive observer of it. Generally as an observer I'm going to know the names of some of my local producers, and the celebs. As a producer, theoretically, I'd know the name of all the celebs, and many other producers. As a celeb, I'd know the names of the celebs, forget the names of producers except my local producers, and try not to notice the observers. And almost certainly be an observer and/or producer in more than one other culture myself.

Amusingly, one reason I started thinking about this is that in Animal Crossing, the characters that are in every town are somewhat known as the 'celebrities'. Why? Because everybody (in the Animal Crossing virtual and meta communities) knows their names.

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Hee hee!!
[info]xleste
2002-12-02 11:38 pm UTC (link)
I'm often amused at some of the things that influence a culture, and the construction of ideas, like what you mentioned with Animal Crossing.

For instance, I theorize that Crayola has shaped a few generations' perceptions of colors. Ex: a common conception of the color "puce" or "periwinkle" or "chartreuse" probably arose from Crayola mass marketing crayons in their 64 pack named those particular names. I think lipstick manufacturers do it within a limited segment of the population too. For instance, Mac make-up fans all know what color "plum" and "purr" is, just like Chanel users may know that "Desire" is a different shade of pink.

Just a piece of food for thought for you, some leadership literature indicates that some of the most successful leaders are those who are really in touch with the "observers". That might be a variable thing from one kind of "culture" to another in your view of culture. Like, that might be true in business culture and the notion of leadership, and NOT true in umm...something else I can't think of right now 'cause I'm tired.

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Re: Hee hee!!
[info]chrysoula
2002-12-03 12:12 am UTC (link)
The Crayola thing is really interesting and quite possible.

For reference, I don't necessarily think the celebrities are always the leaders in their culture, except by setting examples to follow. I wouldn't say all cultures HAVE leaders in the traditional 'guiding' sense, although some definitely do. Also, when I mean 'ignore' I mean 'try not to pay attention to the fact that hundreds or thousands of people /know their name/ and they /don't know them/. I hear that's bad for the digestion sometimes! Although yeah, the most beloved celebs are always those who can relax and interact with observers peaceably. Everybody Alton Brown signed a book for at the booksigning we attended was treated to a personal introduction from him. It was fascinating to stand in line waiting and watch him, as each group or person approached his table, stand there, stick out his hand, and cheerfully say, "Hi, I'm Alton," with a real sense of being genuine.

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